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Please nerf Cra this has gone on too long.

By knutsnuts February 06, 2017, 16:14:31

90% of ranked matches are vs cra, they are ridiculous and you know it dev team. Please do something, i really like this game but i cant stand the cras.

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Score : 438

The thing is, once they nerf Cra, people will simply move over to Xelor.
*Both focus on mass removal + ranged attacks (Cra/Sinestro).

Then if both of those get nerfed, people will move back to aggro decks that focus rush (direct damage being the most consistant thing keeping them currently in check).

So the question is, how do you nerf Cra and Xelor (direct/ranged damage) without pushing the meta over to aggro?

Granted, you could nerf charge cards to limit aggro somewhat.. but then with direct damage out of the way and aggro possibly being too slow to actually fishing players off before the big minions drop. Would that mean Control decks take over and every game lasts 30-40 mins?

Regardless, it'll be interesting to see what direction Ankama take the game in.
*Especially with their first expansion happening in a few months.

As a bit of a sidenote and warning to the devs about future card balance/expansions:
*Here's Kripp talking about the current state of Hearthstone and how gameplay has not only gotten stale but current card design is pushing new players away and restricting the remaining players to only a handful of decks that all play the same way (they're all aggro).

Reference:
www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/5s9l20/kripparrian_why_ranked_play_is_horrible/

Direct Youtube Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJmnVieooUo

 

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kriparrian opinions should be taken with a grain of salt

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They need to reduce maximum deck size to increase effectiveness of combo strategies. Also they need to introduce fire/ice/lightning etc attacks so minions can have rock/paper/scissor interaction beyond ranged/first strike, and charge.

If they did these things I believe Cra would fall into line. For example if you say that Cra's arrows are non-elemental that would mean that they are except from ever having any advantage over anything with the fire/ice/lightning defenses which would make them less effective overall.

Something like that.

Also artifacts that effect the board would be nice. And some of the Infinites could use redesign. Marline for example is NOT a feel good kind of card.

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A few changes to Cra would be enough to make her mora balanced. I have read pretty good suggestions around, right now these come to mind.

-Homing Arrow increasing its AP cost when it returns to the hand.

-Increase AP Cost of Destructive Arrow. 4AP to kill a minion regardless of its stats is ridiculous.


 

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Score : 438

What if Homing Arrow remained on the field, on the tile where it killed the creature (the arrow has to be "collected" by your own creature, to return to you hand)?

IE: Homing Arrow, mechanically acts like a Seed.
*If an enemy steps on it instead of your own minion, it destroys the arrow.

Also +1 to the idea of increasing the AP required to use "Destructive Arrow".
*Either that or make it so that it only works on "damaged" minions.

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I´m done with Cra too. Once I go against a Cra I know the game is gonna be boring or stressful.
Clean this, clean that, clean that other thing...ffs.

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Cra is a very strategic deck, so what is stressful to some, is the reason to play for others.

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Lol, thanks. I needed a laugh.

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From what I hear Cra doesn't dominate 90% of games at the top of the ladder, but instead Cra, Iop, and Sram pretty much make up 90% of the games at the top.

That being said, if you find that 90% of the ladder is Cra where you are at...build a Cra counter and shoot to legend for free...

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Did you even watch Frozen arena? Literally everybody and their momma used Cra, including the top 16.

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Hikki-Powa|2017-02-07 22:13
Did you even watch Frozen arena? Literally everybody and their momma used Cra, including the top 16.


Well yeah, everyone was required to bring 3 classes, but actually Iop, Sram, and Eni were actually used more than Cra, and Iop was the deck banned the most by far!
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How worked this banned thingy? I didn't get it. Do they watched the matches and if the deck was too degenerate it got a ban?

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I agree with shadowfacts, they need to be carefull to not wipe the class entirely from the competitive scene, just some adjusts, I think that cra's removal spells are a bit balanced somehow but the problem is that there are too much, with wabbits the thing get even worse. 

And I'm looking forward to some sadida adjusts as well, poor class needs some love.

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Score : 634

+1 To keeping the same effects just limiting the amount, it gets insane with wabbits, flopin, royal gobs and others. As someone who plays slow decks, the fact that you can include 3 storm arrows in your deck is what really perturbs me.  

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They need to reduce max deck size that would force some concessions from control decks but also allow combo decks like sadida to actually hit their combos consistently

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7 cras in a row on ladder...what a goddamn fun and balanced class. Almost as annoying like hearthstone ranked, what a shame.

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and they just sit and wait on ur to do something for them to utterly counter it immediately and then press for an easy advantage

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Is It really a good idea to neaf CRA? Just to see how many plager are using CRA in rank 30. Alomst every CRA is a control deck, very bad match up against aggro deck, such as iop.Xelor also have the same removal like CRA and have many control cards? why do not nert Xelor first?

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A 30 second count just determined that xelor has 4 removal spells and cra has 7. Xelor is not the problem.

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There are several things to check, but those that most affect the balance of the game making it boring are:

Rollback (Fortunately, being a  medium-complicated deck, few use it)
Cra Decks (ALL -.-)

 

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Leekichu|2017-02-12 09:28
A 30 second count just determined that xelor has 4 removal spells and cra has 7. Xelor is not the problem.


Why do you think the number of spells is the problem?

Are you really scared of a deck of 45 removal?

Like half of Cra's removal does 2 damage or less. Half of Xelor's removal can do 5 or more.

Seriously, Cra's removal isn't a problem. If there is a problem with Cra it's that Range is way undercosted. 1 range should be worth waaaaaaay more than 1 stat point.
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That was simply a response to the person saying that they had the same removal. But yes the number is a problem. I'm not scared of a deck of 45 removal spells because that would just be silly, you'd have no win condition. However as an eni, when basically your only removal spell is a 2 cost 2 damage spell, how are you supposed to out control a cra?

You don't have the tools to make an aggresive deck (no access to charges and your "damage buff" is a 4 AP conditional spell). 

You can't play huge minions because most likely they'll have 2 mp and the range will kill them before they can attack.

Playing tempo seems to be your only choice, but the cra has so many spells they can remove your guys as they play them/win easy trades with range + charges. This is where my problem lies.
1. Even if you're fortunate enough to win, the match is guaranteed to last 30+ minutes vs a cra.  
2. The amount of spells severely limits the tactical gameplay of the class, and while I acknowledge that some gods are meant to be harder, cra in its current state is 95% mindless clicking
3. The amount of spells also severely limits the deckbuilding strategy. You legitimately just put as many copies of each removal spell as you can, then fill the remaining slots with infinites, wabbits, ranged units, and of course Ancestral Blibli. 

Voila, you are now rank 30+. 
 

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Leekichu|2017-02-12 18:29
Voila, you are now rank 30+. 
 
 


And lose to every competent Iop and Sram on the ladder :/

Just because Cra is a better control deck than Eni right now doesn't mean Cra is broken, it just means Eni isn't as good (though Eni has some stupidly good stuff).

And you say this like Eni doesn't have access to the exact same late game threats that Cra uses, Celestial Gobbals and Translucent Chafers.

Eni largely isn't as good as Cra because Eni has a loooooot of trash cards, specifically minions with terrible bodies while Cra has that stupid Ghost.
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I just used eni as an example because thats the class I'm most familliar with. I'm certain sadi/eca are the same and I doubt the other classes that are actually played win every match vs cra. Yes there are good matchups for different gods, but a single god shouldnt have almost a guaranteed win vs any other god. 

If I run 3 untargetargable 1 ap spells, 3 gobs, and 3 chafers, thats a total of 9 "undealable minions". The chafers only have 2 mp so cras can deal with them with ranged units most of the time. That leaves 6 threats.

Say half the time I use the 1 AP spell on minions with 2mp and half on 3mp, that leaves 4.5 threats. That's really not threatening enough since cra has access to those same things and more. 

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If you want to counter Cra as Eni, you can use Tsu Tsu, lots of healing, phase difference and silencing word.

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An than they use untargetable minions, or even a ghost that also has range.
Removal shouldn't be the only way to beat a deck that focuses on removal

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Well, you can use your own untargeatable to counter spells. Attacking multiple times per turn with ancestral bilibli is pretty broken though. It should move and then give an attack.

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I can´t belive there´s people defending the insanity that is the quantity of spells of cra plus its ranged minions.The game is supposed to be enjoyed and balanced outside the ranked system and even in it, Cra is still broken most of the time. Cra is the most used class in and out of ladder for a goddamn good reason..."easy difficulty" ? more like "smash keys with your head and win the game". FeelsBadMan

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Also, to be fair, multiple attacks with charge is the reason why Iop with ranged creatures works so well. They could relatively easily make 4 attacks per turn with Ancestral Bilibili and the Iop that makes allies charge.

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Leekichu|2017-02-12 17:28
A 30 second count just determined that xelor has 4 removal spells and cra has 7. Xelor is not the problem.


 I can also put it in this way, if cra has control cards such as Teleporiation or Devotion , they will of cause reduce the number of removal cards. Removal cards are the most direct way to control , but sometime are not the most effective way,because some minions are hard to remove . You need to even use 2 or 3 removal cards to remove one ,sometimes. And some minions have untargetable , and you now have one hand removal cards.
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