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NERF CRA

By Shabukahn January 02, 2017, 16:22:53
Reactions 102
Score : 56

When your deck need specific cards to combat a god that's when you know it's op. When you play against Cra the odds are against you plain and simple. Don't say noobs can't counter when this is a game of luck of the draw. Your deck shouldn't revolve on countering a specific god.

7 -1
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Score : 1603

IMHO, the word nerf is being used a bit much across the board. I think there has to be a stronger emphasis on a God having one focus rather than 2-3. Sram and Cra are two that have been too open to multiple fronts. Cra with the range+direct spell attack and Sram with the spells-to-discard and teleport push. 

That said, both are simply forcing you to play a different way. With Cra, it essentially takes direct attacks and only ever playing a 3-move minion when she plays hers. Problem is when she can simply destroy your 3-mover with a direct attack, and now you're screwed. So either direct attack or making the range 2-movers, with an emphasis on +MP spells would fix the problem. 

Sram is much the same meta-problem with the same outcome. He plays teleporting minions and you're forced to wait and see them prior to playing yourself... else you are drawing extra cards in order to confer your own outmatched minion or +AT to assure the teleporters' death. By then you've already put yourself in the whole of drawing cards, and if he's using his spells properly, all he needs to do is wait you out. He can even be slightly aggressive in order to force your hand more and assure you run out of cards first. 

Either lowering the teleporters' HP or lowering the consistency of the Sram card-discard spells would fix this. 

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Score : 4609
8 -2
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Score : 1603

So as I evolved over the last week something has become pretty clear: Cra is OP when you're Lvls 12-14 because she has the best starter meta. Everything is efficient. Lots of direct damage. And as her opponent you feel like you have to throw minions at her, rather than being VERY patient. You learn the latter part with experience... and it comes with better success against her. 

Once you are hitting Lvls 14-20, Feca becomes the new bane of your existence, with far too much cohesion between the characters. The ability to confer, +AT, +Rally, and lower the cost of her cards. Feca is easier to beat early because most people at lower levels don't know how to use her. But if y'all hate Cra as much as I have.... just wait until you reach the more seasoned players with Feca. It's........... it's just rough. 

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Score : 33

I know the game is far different now, but when I started playing (before the proper release), I went straight for the Sacrier deck since I love the class. Eventually because of the challenges and all that I decided to fight with the other Gods. I got 16 ranked consecutive wins with Cra, most which felt unfair, and I hardly had cards for the deck either.

I definetly hate facing them because at many times it just feels like they have every perfect card for every situation, and then you're suddenly left vulnerable trying to defend your Dofus eggs like crazy, but everything you put down gets killed or destroyed(Destructive Arrow).

Whereas the other Gods feel like they worked to be able to overcome you, Cra feels cheap and easy.

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Score : 765

Ok, lately Cras have become really strong. Even though there are a few ways to get around, Cras have even more counters now. Even with silencing minions, it’s not enough. A slight nerf to their range is needed, because what I find so unfair is how range is given to all their minions. 

A majority of my matches in the higher levels are now against cra....

2 -1
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Score : 1603

Just wait until people perfect the Feca deck. I agree Cra needs nerfing, but likely just less direct damage ("destroy a minion" is pretty ridiculous). But Feca surely needs nerfing before Cra. I can beat Cra around 30% of the time. I can beat Feca maybe 10% of the time because the confers, rallying, glyph builds, and lowering cost of cards is absurdly OP.  

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Score : 232

Problem is quiver draw being basically free. "Ends your turn" is such a weak restriction because she benefits from dumping minions/blasts most of the time anyway.

She will cycle her deck extremely swiftly dumping minions, buffing them with leaders, and then getting blasts and position swappers to make playing anything other than outright removal pointless. 

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Score : -83

As a Cra player myself, I believe that Enutrof provides a counter to Cra. Enutrof has a range of ways to deal with ranged cards(no pun intended), not to mention the drhellzerkers that he forms. Also, resistance is a great way to stop most of the cheap Cra cards as they attacks do very little damage.

 

BootsyGarbGarb|2018-02-16 16:55:59
Right, but if a God forces you to play only 1-2 particular deck types to beat it... it's broken. 

It's fine, because the Kros team is surely working hard to balance everything. Maybe it's just everyone else is getting more answers rather than Cra getting buffed. But it's certainly wonky right now. 

Yeah, you’re right. But the crackler family all have resistance so you could throw some in.

They could just reclassify ranged damage as spell damage, which instantly give untargetable creatures more use, because as of now(in my opinion), untargetable creatures stop themselves from being really effective as they can not receive effects that target only a single creature.
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Score : 1603

Right, but if a God forces you to play only 1-2 particular deck types to beat it... it's broken. 

It's fine, because the Kros team is surely working hard to balance everything. Maybe it's just everyone else is getting more answers rather than Cra getting nerfed. But it's certainly wonky right now. 

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Score : 16

It's not the cards in particular that make Cra so powerful, but how they synergize to spiral out of control.

If you wait to play a minion until Cra plays a minion, they have a whole slew of options to get to you first still- if they can take out your minion with a control spell then you simply cannot play minions on that lane without taking ranged damage first. Using control cards to counter Cra does not net you any advantages- you and your opponent are down 1 card in hand each at that point. On top of that, there are many cra minions that go beyond that "fragile 2 hp" mark- making control really inefficient for anyone who isn't named "Xelor".

I'm just tired of my matches coming down to "Did my opponent draw an equal number of minions and control cards? Did I bring untargetable minions? Ok no point in playing the game- I guess I lost." I feel like playing against Cra is the least rewarding for in game tactics and strategy crafting. I'm perfectly happy to lose a game when I made mistakes- I'm not happy when the only mistake I made in a game is playing against Cra (in a sense, playing Krosmaga for those 20 minutes.)

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Score : 104

I do not have big problems with cra. I adhere to the following tactics against her:
1) Minions summon in response, after she puts her (cras inflict at least twice as much damage to your minion if cras attack first (works if the enemy minion has 3 or less range points)). Thus, your creature with 3 MP will get to the enemy before and will receive less damage.
2) Cra is insignificant in close combat, they live at the expense of range. (on average, they have 2-4 AT) So that minions like iops or others with good health and attack indicators will easily cope with them. The main thing is to get to them as quickly as possible, but for this there is glai, grambo chef and charge sppells.3) Cra spells bring a lot of problems, so at the beginning of the fight I try to force the opponent to use spells  (I put weak, cheap minions (I do not think that aggro deck will have problems with this) Sometimes it happens that the opponent spends all spells at the beginning of the battle, although this rarely happens .
You have to be careful with calling the minions after the seventh turn (7 AP) and I think you know why. ^^

Sorry for my English
 

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Score : 1603

Your english is strong. No problem there. Most of my decks can handle Cra... but it's quite a grind every time, win or lose.

The problem many have with Cra is that if you can't jump out early you end up just having your minions hit with direct damage. So now your counter is gone and she has minions on the 5th cell, so you must try and counter again. If you're very unlucky she has even more direct damage (or elite scout or armor piercing). If she's running a standard, she simply pulls her minions back with retreat. 

Because range is her god-specific, I can't complain about that at all. It's like complaining about Rally on Feca, buffs on Iop, or seeds on Sadida. So my problem is more with ALL the direct damage. Either a lessening of spell dmg totals OR less of them would be the right move. 

 

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Score : 46

I love reading stuff like this. The people making a move on getting something nerfed and then you got those who will get pissed about hearing what is possibly the truth. Now here comes the part where I try not to take sides and bring the two parties together.

1st) The Cra do need a nerf. I'm sorry, but it is true and while I love to avoid this fate like any fan would, it's mostly likely going to happen either way so might as well be honest. Also I can see why people would like a nerf here. This God does have certain advantages that allow complete control of a match, but no one God should have that kind of power with out more risk to the player.

2nd) I feel like I shouldn't have to point this out, but I will anyway just to get this part of the conversation over before it can start. I'm not attacking just the Cra, there are a few other Gods that need some fixing. I'm just focusing on this forums topic. I'm just giving my opinion and some viable options to help prevent a over the top nerf. I like to limit the damage that will be done. 

3rd) Now that the obvious stuff is out of the way, let's get to the opinion part of this topic. The Cra are pretty much good at what they do, which is being great range fighters and have some pretty great damage spells and repel. The Spells I feel don't need to be touched. Their affects are clear and simple and really don't need any reworks, with that said the Cra minions are the real issue. Now I know what your thinking that's so untrue they are fine. My answer to this possible responds is "Yes" and "No". The Cra's attack and pay costs for summoning are pretty close to perfect, but combined with the spells they have an overwhelming advantage and I have seen time and time again they can either shoot the Dofus and take them out with almost no chance at reaching the minion doing this or the Cra minions completely dominate the field and even taking out one will be pointless since the minion behind it will shoot almost any minion dead. So to minimize the possibility of the Cra minions over populating the field, I come up with three options that can fix this.

Option A) I say reduce some of the Cra minions HP by 1 so they can be taken out easier by low end damage spells or mass damage spells that target mulitple minions. This option allows the Cra's to do what they can now, but at greater risk at losing mulitple minions at once or being able to take each one out with most low attack minions. This makes it easier for the other player to put up a defense and turn the tables if said player plays their cards right.

Option B ) Reduce the AT of the Cra minions. I prefer to avoid this one if possible, but it would fix the issue where Cra players are able to destroy Dofus quickly allowing for more options to be done. This option would also allow high HP enemy minions to do more in the row their are summoned to with out being taken out quickly.

Option C) Reduce the Cra Range abilities by 1. This would do pretty much the same thing as option B, but would make the Cra minions easier to get at. Especially if the person who is facing the Cra took out a fake Dofus. This would make it so the two minions are next to each other and will force the two to fight and resulting either one minion losing or both being taken out.

By the way I know this sounds one sided, but I like those who play the Cra the most please help come up with some minor changes to help calm the nerf storm that might happen. Thank you for all of your time. Please work together. Cause nerf's happen no matter what so don't try and stop it just limit it. smile

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Score : 2954

I note from your very first bullet point onward that you have not succeeded in not taking sides, though as possible changes go, I've heard worse. Most of these were bounced around a while back (and are probably still being talked about.)

I'm still on the fence about the issue. I've heard evidence that cra may actually be the current dominant god, but my own experiences vs. cra are not lining up with this so far.

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Score : 157

I have been reading this forum once in a while and i got really interested in all that  never ending "nerf cra" requests phenomenon. If I wasn't playing the game and was just reading the forum I would think that Cra is an eternally overpowered god that Ankama keeps on refusing to nerf, while the truth is that Cra decks have never really been among god tier ones. I don't say she's weak but she isn't among the strongest gods atm either.

There are many games (not necessarily TCG) in which there are gods/champions that seem ridiculously strong at the start, but while you get to know them and you climb in the ladder they turn out not to be so hard to play against and not that good to play as. Such a god in Krosmaga is Cra. She is just rookie stomper. She has pretty simple mechanics to play with and she is quite inconvenient to play against for starters. Another thing is that starter deck of Cra is one of the best ones among starter decks (if not the best one) and it's easy to build it up, especially as synergies between Cra cards are more obvious after first impression than for other gods, but it still doesn't mean she's overpowered. She's just more intuitive to play as for most of begginers.

As far as I have noticed most of people complaining about Cra are players that are relatively new to this game and/or don't really ever reach the level above rank 18-20. What I would recommend is to think how to play around her specificity. I think that a good idea to learn how to play against her is to play some games as Cra  and as you will be losing some games you can find out what did you have problems with, cause I guarantee that you will have some, since Cra has some significant drawbacks. 

I hope that I didn't sound too presuming. My intention was not to judge or insult anyone, but to suggest to find some solutions instead of blaming the constructive lack of balance. I have been there too. I was also the starter. I have also considered Cra as the strongest one at the beggining, cause she has that range and stuff and she was so annoying to play against. But I started to play as her and I found out that she is not that wonderful as I assumed at the beggining and I made some conclusions. Just take your time and make some too.

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Score : 46

I wouldn't say you sound presuming, but like it or not this god is going to get a nerf. Just like any god will get a nerf to its minions and if that's the reality then we most try to see what action of nerf would be best to help the creators of this fine game not go overboard. If we as the community don't try and see ways of helping out with nerfs and pretend they don't need them, then when the day comes our random complainers will win and the goddess cra will get hit hard. I prefer not to let this trend continue. So that's why I wrote the post above. If we can decide on one or give good ideas that won't hurt the game play of this god to much, we just might prevent a major nerf from acquiring and maybe keep the people who love playing as this god from raging to much as well. That's my hope anyway.

2 -4
Score : 89
  • All Cras get an extra shot at their opponent before the opponent can even reach their target. Occasionally, if you play your cards right, you can get two extra shots.
  • On that note, push any enemy you want backwards with a single card, ensuring your first hit.
  • On top of that, minions that have just as much health/attack as regular minions of that same cost.
  • Damage cards are cheap, at 1 mana per damage point.
  • Straight up destroy any one minion for 5 mana.
  • A curse effect that comes with every non-OP spell card.

Yeah, no, Cra isn't overpowered at all.

Look, I've played this game for about a year, as a myriad of characters. I repeatedly get into tier 3 or tier 4 in drafts, and I usually get into levels 15-17 on a regular basis, mostly because I don't focus on my mains all too much. There is nothing more broken than a one-card counter to a minion that took three cards to build. I've tried a wide variety of things, and nothing works. The simple fact of the matter is this: you can either have a build designed to counter Cras or a generally good build. You cannot have both. Good luck fighting Iop with a Sram deck.

My main is Sacrier, and I tell you true that Sacrier cannot fight Cra with any good deck, because the buffs that Sacrier gets against Cra (first strike, increased attack) always come at too high a cost to fight the Cra archers. Sram minions can beat the archers, assuming that they surface to the top of the deck, but they can't combat the instant-kill cards. Besides, Sram decks take forever to become strong, and timing is everything when fighting Cra. Xelor decks have the same problem, Enutrof minions don't have high enough hit points, and Ecaflip depends entirely upon chance to wipe the archers. Feca is perhaps the worst of all; the armor is useful to a point, but her minions are to slow to intercept the archers before they have a chance to fire. Iop's first strike is useless, archers will never walk over Sadida's seeds because of their range, and Eniripsa minions have far too low of an attack rate to deal any significant damage, save, again, getting exactly the right cards.

Notice that, with the exception of Sram, none of these factions can even get past the RANGE aspect of the Cra deck, much less the insta-kill cards. Each of them has to play three or four cards to get rid of a single archer, draining their deck before the real fight even begins.

Yes, I also know that there are specific strategies for countering Cras; I'm no fool. You have to play your minion challenger after the Cra player plays theirs in order to avoid their range of fire (and even then, it doesn't work in all cases). You have to get your minion to the second-to-last row so that you can fight archers hand-to-hand. Even then, when I play everything perfectly, The enemy Cra player will straight-up destroy my minion with one card, bringing their minion forth, nullifying that strategy and practically SOLVING this CARD GAME. For any of you not familiar with this game-theory term, this happened before when a group of scientists found out that you could always win Connect Four, so long as you go first and select the center spot. With Cra, there is practically no way you could lose if you play well. It's gotten to the point where I'm fairly certain that people don't use Cra only as a matter of principle, or out of a personal preference for other metas.

I think there's a simple, temporary solution to Cra's stranglehold on the meta: make every Cra card worth one more mana point. I personally don't think that's too much of a tall order to ask, but it could be for many if not most. This is just a bandaid while Ankama fixes this fundamentally broken god.
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Score : 89

Apparently we have a talentless hack who can't counter our arguments and has so decided to downvote the anti-Cra comments and upvote the pro-Cra comments. It's stuff like this that proves that we're in the right.

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Score : 1687

For me, I just think the destroy a minion card is way to forgiving. 5 ap for that affect when we see other krosmics with similar removal being much more expensive. Ecaflips paws off is 6 ap and and just puts a minion on an owners deck. All the transform a minion into something cards cost more than 5 ap as well.

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Score : 1

Evangelyne 4AP 3/3 1-5 range or 1-7 if a member tofu is in game, ocra have an epic card 6AP 2/3 range 1-6. This infinite card needs a value of 5AP at least or range 1-4 or 2 hp like the most spells in game. Because all decks are so aggresive and have a strong start thanks to that and if you dont have a spell you cant catch her, and you lose the dofus only i know a card move 5 and it cost is 7AP and you need 2 dofus false or a charge to reach the dofus, evangelyne need to be nerfed. 

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Score : 2083

i agree cra is overpowered.
there are not many counter options.

iop has charge wich i guess is a good counter,sram has a few minions that teleport,wich is not technically a counter but it can still help win,ecaflip and xelor have a nice ammount of spells that deal damage,and feca has shields and armors.
the rest of the gods don't have many ways to counter her.

they should reduce the range of all her minions to 2 and come up with a better way to increase it to 3.

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Score : 198

really.just put some silence cards in your deck and you'll be fine.

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Score : 46

sign* Is it really that big a deal to try and limit the damage to something you know will get a nerf. Why not try to see it from a different point of view. The Cra are still pretty annoying to fight and like "Lifewill" and a few others said in this forum with some decent supporting facts, only a few God's have unique minions to counter her. Also if you have to build a deck that just counters a Cra user that limits the players ability to take on other players. Seeing as matchmaking is a random thing and you never know what god you will fight. I like to just make it so that Cra's don't have a clear advantage from the start and to prevent having to use two cards per Cra minion to take it down. Kinda defeats the purpose of making unique decks if you have no choice, but to follow the idea of just facing this one god. What's fun about being limited and having other cards if you can't really use them. Also I see a lot of counter arguments, but not enough facts to support the idea that Cra don't need to be nerfed. Please I beg everyone defending them to come up with facts that support what your trying to say, not just personal feelings. I like to be convinced of not nerfing them, not be bored with reading what seems to be nonsense.

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Score : 157

"something you know will get a nerf" - I have no idea why are you so convinced that Cra is about to get a nerf, just because you want it.  Ankama clearly doesn't work this way. They even made a statement about it.

You want facts to support our theories while you keep using your personal feelings yourself. 

I wrote the answers to pretty all your statements above in my previous posts. Please refer to them instead of demanding facts cause I'm bored to write it over again. I wrote there things like that Cra has just 48% win ratio, which means that SHE LOSES MOST OF HER GAMES. If that's not the fact proving that she's not overpowered and it's just personal feeling then I truly don't know what do you expect from us.

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Score : 2954

Are there statistics for this somewhere (somewhat recent ones)?  I was looking for this a while back and I'd love to get a link to them.

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Score : 46

I understand why you feel that way and why you would take what I wrote this way as well, I've done the same thing in the past, but I do try not to include my personal feelings on this stuff. It usually falls on deaf ears anyway when you do. Anyway if the Cra get a nerf so be it or if they don't then that's great. All I'm doing is using my experience on these things to come up with what I'm saying and while that may be interpreted as personal it really isn't seeing how in any game those with decent win rates ranging from 45-60% will always get a nerf and this has been proven time and time again over the years for me. That twitter tracker is a good example of what might be hit. I don't like this, but I've given up and pretending it won't happen to my favorite characters or to understand the reasons for this kind of action. We never really know what goes through creators heads, all we do know is the statistical actions that are commonly taken by most game developers.

This may not seem fair, but reality is often unfair. That's why I was hoping to change this course and do something that most people hate to do when it's easier to pretend it won't happen. I want to try and come up with changes that would keep a possibility of a brutal or annoying nerf from happening simply because there are people who will complain to an unreasonable level and believe or not these complaints are heard despite objections to their claims. So in conclusion, I like to see people try and help with this instead of keeping to the norm on this kind of stuff. Plus as time goes on it be nice to do something different for a change instead of the common yes it should be done or no it's not needed kinda of thing that we all like to do in our spare time, because that doesn't get old. Anyway once again thank you for you time in reading this. No matter the respond I get, I appreciate the feed back either way. Weather it's bad or good (It's mostly bad lol). Have a good day everyone and play on!

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Score : 157

Even though I agree that in lots of the games the way the game aspects are balanced is controversial I can still see quite a lot of inconsistency in the way you think.

First of all you try to create yourself as person who doesn't take any side in this discussion, while you obviously do.

I agree that Cra will be eventually touched even if it will be done just to refresh the game. However when her time comes she can be either nerfed or buffed and I really don't understand why are you so sure that she will be nerfed. Ankama workers who are responsible for game balance luckily seem to resist from such rush changes so far and what's more they stated a while ago that Cra is not about to get changed any soon, since she's not that strong. That's why there is no need to make any conspiracy theory that Cra will get nerf soon no matter what and I guess it would be better to think of the changes that Cra really needs (if she needs any) instead of thinking of a "not too hard nerf" she doesn't need.

Another thing is that you claim that you want to keep a possibility of a brutal or annoying nerf from happening, while you supported the idea of increasing the cost of each Cra card by 1. I suppose that you can't even imagine what diseaster it would be. Increasing the cost of like 3 cards in particular deck is usually a huge nerf for it, while you want to nerf ALL of them.

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