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Thoughts on the Sadida changes

By Shatae#6779 February 20, 2018, 00:09:40

I really like the changes made to the dolls and the seed mechanic. It makes a lot of the otherwise unplayable cards functional again. And [Rooted]! [Rooted] actually does things now! Now that seeds no longer clog up my hand I can actually save curses! I am so happy about the changes the kmga team made to my favorite class. biggrin

Oh and OTKs are stupid. Please revert.
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How are you so dedicated to building hell? Did you get that job as Satan?

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                                                                                                                                                       Source: ^
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Yeah, I think the dolly-sacrifice with combo of turning seeds into dolls was over-the top. Other than that, I really enjoy it.

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Yeah, I've been viewing Shatae breaking the game. The mistake they made was having a 10-bank rather than a 5. The seeds should bleed into the hand after 5. A Sadida should commit to a Sacrifice hand. The tress being 0/8 is also rough, as you can confer AT on them and protect them with seeds. Meaning that unless you build a anti-Sadida silence deck, you're likely taking on waves of Sacrifice OR dealing with Shataes Necro Sadida.

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the bank's fine- a seed gained is a seed earned. just revert doll sac. Or at least put it up to 7.

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Still think the Doll sac setup OTK is hella annoying and that seed reserve should be capped at like 5. 

Dolly sacrifice needs to be nerfed. 2 dmg to each dofus per doll is just way too much 

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Reminder that changes to the Seed Reserve affects other playstyles.
Changing Dolly Sacrifice only affects the cheesy dolly sacrifice deck(s).

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I really like the idea of capping the Seed reserve to 5.
I'm reading some concerns about this here, but think about it: The old Sadida often was forced to play Seeds to not overdraw. The Seed reserve meant a HUGE benefit to the Sadida gameplay. Now you can just ignore your Seeds and go for better plays with real cards instead and the gameplay actually transitioned to that. I don't think this is just straight up positive, though. Managing your Seeds and finding the right balance between your Seed income and you playing them out seems to be an interesting aspect, not only of gameplay but also of the deck building. This was part of the old Sadida and although it was somewhat annoying, I think shouldn't get lost completely because it could be something to tell the worse and the better Sadidas apart. It's like its own little "mini-game" the Sadida has to play: get the seeds but don't get too many! This seems like a fair task given the fact that the Seed reserve is already a bonus only Sadida has.

The second thing that obviously has everybody's attention is Seeden Impulse+Dolly Sacrifice.
It's a combo that straight up wins the game and there is no counterplay to it at all, well, we know that.
The first thing to ask here is, whether this should be theoretically possible. If you have such an easy combo in the game, every match against Sadida becomes a game versus the clock. Whenever you see Sadida as your opponent you know: the longer the game goes, the more likely it is that he's got it and just ends the game. And I could see the developers being kinda fine with that. If this is a thing only one class can do, it becomes part of their class identity. It's Sadida's special power and it raises the tension of the match quite a lot. Can you feel it? Exciting!
But if it becomes (or stays?) to easy to pull off reliably, you're going to see this class over and over again and you'll lose to this combo way to often. Which is just unfun. So if we want to have an OTK combo like this in the game, it has to have the right balance between "playable" and "hard to pull it off consistently". Only then it becomes something special that you might see from time to time, but doesn't become a staple move. We want a "oh, they actually pulled it off, how crazy!" and not a "aaaand here we go yet again".
This decides whether the damage should stay at 2 or should be back to 1, because with only 1 damage it becomes more of a Timekeeper move, a one-Dofus-snipe. Which would probably be the way to go if we don't want an OTK at all.
If the damage stays at 2 - enabling the whole Dofus massacre - there's only one thing to change left: the cost. And this is actually a very clever way of finetuning the combo. Since Seeden Impulse costs 5, you can play a maximum of 5 seeds together with it in one turn. Dolly Sacrifice also costs 5, so the 5 Seeds are already enough to make it cost 0.
-> Every 1 AP Dolly Sacrifice costs more is 1 Seed you already have to have placed down the turns before.
Now keep in mind, that for a full OTK you have to already have some Seeds out by nature so only 1 AP more won't do much. But imagine Dolly Sacrifice costing 10 AP, suddenly the setup is much harder.
Together with my hope of a Seed reserve capped at 5, this may even be too hard, in which case 8 AP might be the cost to go. This seems to be a much more fitting cost for a game finishing card.

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Even if I had even a max seed bank of 1 it wouldn't have made a difference in ALL of the images I posted.
So stop fucking with the seed bank.

TeamVith|2018-03-04 13:56:06
It's like its own little "mini-game" the Sadida has to play: get the seeds but don't get too many!

Haha yeah no if you want mini-games play [Kriss Krass]. Managing seeds is hard enough even without a seed cap. [Syvine Graswyld] would just become a shitty expensive-ass beater with a [Bag of Seeds] effect that will 9/10 give you more seeds than you can actually place. Get this idea out of my face.

TeamVith|2018-03-04 13:56:06
This seems like a fair task given the fact that the Seed reserve is already a bonus only Sadida has.

Iop has first strike. Cra has range.
Well Sadida has seeds. 1 dmg, or 1 ar. It's not a bonus Sadida has. It's all sadida has. And you're suggesting that we cut the bank in half for no arguable reason other than 'it could arbitrarily manage [Dolly Sacrifice]'. Seriously. If [Dolly Sacrifice] didn't even exist, would you still be complaining about how overpowered 10 seeds is? No. No, you wouldn't. So stop complaining about the goddamn bank and start asking how we can fix [Dolly Sacrifice].

I've said it once. I'll say it again. 
A seed gained is a seed earned.

TeamVith|2018-03-04 13:56:06
So if we want to have an OTK combo like this in the game, it has to have the right balance betwe-

No. Don't be stupid. OTK's are stupid. OTK's in every 2 player game is stupid. It's one person playing solitaire while the other person watches. If you think that's ok then you're stupid.
The only kind of OTK's I'm willing to accept are the ones that are so stupid that your opponent is forced to sit and watch and appreciate how absolutely stupid it all is. Anything less than that is trash. Which is why [Dolly Sacrifice] is trash.

Even raising [Dolly Sacrifice]'s cost to like 12 ap won't make a difference. The OTK only needs 8 seeds on the field to win. 4 damage to 4 dofus, then curses. The combo you propose will only raise the cost of the combo from 5 ap to 7 ap. Changing anything about the OTK other than [Dolly Sacrifice]'s damage still means the OTK will be possible. 

I guarantee if [Dolly Sacrifice] hadn't gotten it's damage boosted to 2 none of us would be complaining as hard as we are. I say we just gimp the otk entirely. Reduce it's damage, and be done with it.
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if "next played seed this turn" will cost +1 manna (first 1, second 2, 3 4...)(or start from 0 manna to make doll-sadida playable) it will fix OTK win game combo (opponent get +2 turns before sadida plant 3+3+3 seeds)

or obvious change card to "sacrafice dolls on single line to dmg dofus" (can be targeted dofus to keep card playable)

every class has "kill single dofus card" only Eca and Sadida with AOE kill dofus

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"Sacrifice your dolls. They inflict 1 damage on an enemy dofus." sounds ok, but that would be such a boring card.
I'd also make it a common, instead of a krosmic. Since it's so difficult to set up I'd argue that 3 of them would be totally fine. I'd also drop it's cost down to 4, and, oh, and let's make it a minion, too! Every time it runs over a doll it'll like throw the dolls at the dofus or something. I'd give it like 2 atk, and 5 hp. I'd also rename it to Ratchet...

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whats a dolly sacrifice????

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